PM Kakar did not say Quaid-i-Azam’s stance on Israel was ‘wrong’

The iVerify Pakistan team has checked this content and has established that it is False.

To arrive to this verdict, the IVerify Pakistan team has sourced the original interview from where the clip is cut.

HOW IT STARTED

On December 14, 2023, news outlet Capital TV shared a video of caretaker Prime Minister Anwaarul Haq Kakar’s interview with the headline: “Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah was wrong, we are right. The caretaker prime minister declared the nation’s founder as wrong.”

The video was shared on both Facebook and X where it gathered close to 7,000 views together.

Pkwisdom, an account describing itself as an online independent blog website, also shared a post with the claim: “Caretaker PM Kakar asserts that Quaid-i-Azam was mistaken.”

Similarly, the political party Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf also shared a video of the prime minister, quoting him as saying: “It is not necessary to follow the position of Quad-i-Azam regarding Israel.”

The PTI’s post on X generated massive views above 141,000 people and was shared 4,000 times.

METHODOLOGY

The iVerify Pakistan fact-check team’s investigation into where the premier’s clip originated showed that it was from his interview with anchor Waseem Badami on ARY News show 11th Hour on Dec 13 at 11 pm.

The anchor asked questions about the current Israeli military campaign on the besieged Gaza Strip at the 34-minute mark and the premier’s view of a two-state solution as the answer to the crisis.

The following is a transcript of the relevant parts of the interview:

Anchor: “This issue of Palestine and Gaza. You have a tweet that the two-state solution is the only solution to this. The question is this that when you say the two-state solution is the only solution, then you say the Israelis should have their own land and the Palestinians their own land?”

PM Kakar: “I am not saying this nor is Pakistan saying this. The whole world is saying this. I don’t understand that this is linked with us as if we gave advice, some new advice.”

Anchor: “So if the world is saying this then this is also your opinion and you support it?”

PM Kakar: “The way children have been martyred and the elderly, women and children cut down, tell me, what is the solution? … rhetoric alone is injustice with those martyrs. Ask the Palestinians what they want … they have to decide how to spend their lives with Israelis and the Jews and whether they have to accept each other’s existence or not. We are not a part of them, my or your child is not being killed. The first right belongs to those whose children are being killed. Ask them what they want.”

Anchor: “Is Hamas their representative?”

PM Kakar: “The Palestinians will make this decision. Not me or you.”

Anchor: “They have done so. They elected Hamas in Gaza. Hamas says it does not want Israel.”

PM Kakar: “If it does not want then there should be a discussion on this … to push this issue towards us as if we are suggesting this, this perception is not right. When the whole world, including the Arab and Muslim world, supported the Oslo Accords … and talked about a two-state solution.”

Anchor: “Did Palestinians support it? Did they not criticise Yasser Arafat after this?”

PM Kakar: “I am careful because every Palestinian and every faction is important to me. This right should be given to the Palestinians that who is their representative. We or outsiders cannot force it upon them.”

Anchor: “On today’s date it is Hamas. Hamas here [in Gaza] and the PLO [in the West Bank]. And Hamas atleast says it does not want Israel.”

PM Kakar: “This is their stance. This discussion is underway in the whole Islamic world. Thus, this is a very big and complicated issue and not that simple. Overall, we should not adopt a separate stance from the overall stance of the Islamic world and the OIC.”

Anchor: “When we support this opinion, I’m not saying you initiated it, this is a debate in which you also have an opinion that it (two-state solution) should happen, don’t we in a way recognise Israel’s existence? Which goes against Quaid-i-Azam’s statement that ‘Israel is an illegitimate child of the United States and it shouldn’t be, I am against its existence’ and don’t we go against it?”

PM Kakar: “Many people give reference to this (Quaid-i-Azam’s views on Israel). Politics is the name of what is doable and achievable. The basic difference between Quaid-i-Azam and the prophets is that there can be no change in the revelation to them.

“But apart from that, all political leaders or social thinkers that have come, the people of the coming times can deliberate and consider [what they said] according to the situation and circumstances and if there is need for any change or constructive input, then it can be done. There is no restriction on this position of Quaid-i-Azam being changed if Pakistan’s Parliament, all political parties and intelligentsia come to a different conclusion than Quaid-i-Azam’s own … it does not come under ‘kufr’ (heresy).

“This is possible [that you come to a different conclusion than Quaid-i-Azam’s] but whether it should happen or not, there should be a discussion on this.”

PAKISTAN’S OFFICIAL STANCE ON ISRAEL

Pakistan’s official position on the issue, as outlined by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at various points, says: “Pakistan has consistently advocated for a two-state solution as the key to enduring peace in the Middle East, with a just, comprehensive and lasting solution to the Palestinian question anchored in international law and in line with relevant United Nations and OIC resolutions. A viable, sovereign and contiguous State of Palestine should be established based on pre-1967 borders, with Al Quds Al-Sharif as its capital.”

Meanwhile, Quaid-i-Azam had opposed the Partition Plan for Palestine and said Pakistan would provide its “fullest support” to the Arabs if the plan passed through in the United Nations.

CONCLUSION

The iVerify Pakistan team determined that the claims being spread about PM Kakar deeming Quaid-i-Azam to be “wrong” in the interview or saying that it was “not necessary” to follow the position of Pakistan’s founder on Israel were false.

The prime minister did not utter the words “wrong” or “not necessary” by themselves or in any combination when commenting on the questions about the recognition of the Israeli state with reference to Jinnah. He said that the views of Jinnah could be deliberated upon.